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 [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor

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stsung
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Date d'inscription : 26/09/2010

MessageSujet: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Mer 25 Jan - 22:55

Dynasty

Shamate Keep
1x Border Keep XP
1x Bamboo Harvesters (pas sure)

2x Traveling Peddler
2x Family Library
3x Remote Village
3x Copper Mine
1x Stolen Merchandise
1x Indomitable Home

2x Archery Range
1x Akodo Kobi
3x Matsu Nishijo
3x Akodo Tezuka
3x Matsu Koyama
3x Akodo Kamina
1x Akodo Dairuko
3x Akodo Kakihara
3x Kitsu Kagako
3x Akodo Dosei

1x Jurojin's Blessing
1x Blighted Region
1x Alter History

Fate
3x Greatful Reward
3x My Enemy's Mercy
3x Great Sacrifice
1x Creating Order
2x Honor of the Lion
1x Ring of Fire
3x A Paragon's Strength
3x Heavily Engaged
1x A Game of Dice
3x Wall of Honor
3x Surety of Purpose
3x Entrenched Position
3x Guided By Honor
3x Siege Volley
3x Cast Aside the Weak
3x Sundering Strike


Dernière édition par stsung le Lun 13 Fév - 1:22, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Jeu 26 Jan - 11:36

I would add the Desperate Mediation, better than Wall of Honor in my own opinion in this kind of deckbuilding.

Plus Lion want allways play with BK XP (yes I know, the Personnality screw of middle game, but you REALLY want 2 Holdings T1 with a possible 3G producing so you will often use your 2 regular BK T1.

I would really put a The Perfect Moment, even only one, that can win you some games.

With Archery Range in, I would add a pair of Brothers In Battle to benefit both the boost and Tezuka.

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Jeu 26 Jan - 12:52

I'm not agree with Tenrou, with 16 holding you don't play BK xp.

Why you don't play The Honor of the Lion? It's a printed battle and it's another gain of 2.

I like the idea of archery range.

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"In my sword, the wind. In my heart, courage. In my eyes, death. I am Matsu"

"Fear is a burden for lesser men. We are not lesser men. We are Lion."
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Jeu 26 Jan - 13:04

That's because I wouldn't play 16 Holdings and cut the Indomitable. Too much of your Holdings need to be unbowed BTW.

I missed the lack of Honor of the Lion: it's a must have !

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Jeu 26 Jan - 13:21

salut tout le monde,

I played Border Keep XP before but actually I did not really need it. There is a play st of a card I don't really like seeing and I haven't seen a really bad hand yet either. What I need though is a flow of personalities and gold on T1 and T2. I personaly like BK XP more but I found out that I should not be needing it. I have to see which one is better. But with 16 holdings I should be able to get my gold fine most of the time and I do. I died once from not having gold, but that was because after keeping twice I did not get any holdings. And here I could probably play Jurojin's Blessing. Reoccurence of a card that sais gain 2 honor or a kill action and really good ability.

I don't play honor of the lion because I used to play a card that gives certain RA and when that kills something you gain 2 honor. That's probably why I don't want to integrate honor of the lion in the deck. But I will probably try to put it there and see what it does. I realized that I can get 40 honor on T5, regularly on T6. If I would be able to speed things up a bit (and that bit actually means something like 2-3 honor) I could be winning before cards like alter history or tales of dishonor can resolve. For this purpose I could even play Ebisu's Honesty.

I did not include brothers in battle because I usually go to battle to die and I never considered the force bonus needed until I encountered crab scouts (and mantis). Taking that in account I can say that the card is good. But on the other hand. I can defend without presence or go to the battlefield and tap something. My opponent can play Know No Fear and/or tireless efforst or cards like that but that also means playsets of cards not really doing anything. (I have to see what people play). Anyway I can do a mix, some personalies would go defend and one would stay behind and wait for what happens (cards like heavily engaged and flooded pass, I know both cards' effects can be negated --- erm terrain destroyed -> brawl).

I did not know about a card called Desperate Mediation ... well actually this card did not come to my mind. I don't personaly like it much. I like wall of honor's effect more. But without trying to play this card I can't judge. I've played this card only from time to time and it was most of the time bad in all the situations I was forced to play it.

ad perfect moment. I thought about that too. Many times I'm in a situation in which I destroyed all opposing personalities and all I would really need to win the game is the perfect moment.


16 holdings is a lot. I would probably switch back to bk xp and play less holdings. I would probably just take some castles out and add some event/guidance.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Jeu 26 Jan - 13:37

I usually just use the holdings to produce gold, so for the time being it does not really matter what holdings are there. any ideas? I'll give honor of the lion a chance. Actually might be much more viable than flooded pass and such.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Lun 13 Fév - 1:29

I edited the decklist in the first post.

After some games against mantis, unicorn, lion and crab. I made some changes and realized that there are cards that I don't need in a playset (paragon's strength, honor of the lion)

I added blighted region after today's (yesterday's) event and jurojin's blessing because this card seems really good to me.

I'm not sure if this can be good enough military against honor decks, but this is hardly going to happen in our area, so I'll keep it like this (honor against military). Next week there should be a tournament, so I can test it there and see. But I will be mostly figuring out what my opponents will be playing I guess (playing honor from the start is also an advantage in this case).
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Lun 13 Fév - 9:31

Entrenched Position: you really fear Sneak & Naval so much? Is there so many Mantis in your local playgroup?

I really doesn't like Wall of Honor in Lion: I would prefer a more pro-active Battle action that stop an opponent.

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"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Lun 13 Fév - 10:59

Players here (the majority) thinks that every military no matter how it is build should play sneak attack and many don't think about what first action in the battle should be.

Wall of Honor really seem awkward in this deck but I can't complain about it either. Time will show me what's better. (most probably after I encounter some tamori^^)

thanks for the input.

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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Ven 17 Fév - 0:57

For be sure The Honor of the Lion don't work with the strongold? Because it's not really printed on the card ?!
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Ven 17 Fév - 6:50

The text of Shamate Keep has changed with EE:

"Your dishonorable Paragons do not have a maximum Personal Honor of 0 from the rulebook."

That means , and then it becomes Dishonored: it should not have a personal honor of zero from the Rulebook. So Honor of the Lion grant him 4PH, it keeps it.

Actually no card's effect can lesser personal honor in EE. So no soucy with The Honor of the Lion.

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"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Sam 18 Fév - 18:41

Small L5R Tourney
The tournament was supposed to start at 2pm but at that time there were just four players (counting me). I ignored what was going on and continued playing Magic for a while. Noting that I don't really feel well and that I really need to concentrate to be able to play well (and I was playing Zoo, nothing complex).

I hoped to play against some decks I haven't seen or played against. But unfortunately I played against my boyfriend first. We played against each other the night before so I knew the deck already. My bf played Scorpion Dishonor. He got Distractive Priorities and Kameyoi early. It did not seem that good for me but after I was able to buy 2 additional holdings early in the game everything seemed fine. I had enough gold to be able to buy anything even paying 9 gold per personality. I was pretty soon below 0 but managed to destroy first province early. I tried hard to rehonor my personalities at battlefields where I was opposed and buy enough personalitites so I could in the last round attack two provinces. I sent 4 personalities to each province. Their force wasn't great (4F lion, Kagako, Ancestor and Gohei on one province) but I had Wall of Honor to lower the strength of the province and two movements which allowed me to send there two personalities. My opponent ran out of cards and I managed to destroy the remaining provinces.

In round 2 I played against Spider Commander. I first read the stronghold ability and I did not like it much. My stronghold now read: "Target your unbowed Personality. Gain 2 Honor". I expected the player to have some big 'wurms' as followers (champion of thunder etc).

I killed his personality somehow and counterattacked with my paragons destroying a province with Daigotsu Hotako in it. Next turn I had time to buy personalities and a holding. The following opponent's attack failed as well. In the last battle I had big units on the other side with Followers I couldn't destroy (would negate their destruction) and send home actions not weren't really working. I had to get over 45 Honor in order to win as my province would be destroyed no matter what and Alter History was in play. Anyway I was capable of gaining 16 Honor in the battle getting me over 46 so I won. (2x Tezuka + My Enemy's Mercy, playset of Surety of Purpose, Stronghold, 2x Nishijo, Paragon's Strength...)

In Round 3 I played against Crab Berserkers. I knew that this match would be more about the (in)consistency of my opponent's deck rather than anything else. Everything went fine for me but my opponent had 3 attachments in his hand and retribution. One of the attachments ended up in play - armor of the heavens - but I destroyed it with Sundering Strike. That lost me 2 Honor but I still had 27 when the battle ended. I destroyed remaining personality in battle and was ok. My opponent conceded as there was no way how to destroy 4 provinces in time.

Next I had the possibility to play against Unicorn Shugenjas and our little friend Akikazu.
My opponent bought a personality and small farm on turn 1 and attacked on turn 2. Once again Kakihara tried to defend and was eventually tapped which raised him his force by 4. I really needed that as the unit facing him had force 10. After playing all cards from my hand I finally untapped Kakihara and played Great Sacrifice killing the only personality. This way my opponent lost 2 rounds (as he needed holdings first and then personalities). I was without cards but still would be able to buy enough personalities to defend. I got Blighted Region next turn and had 4 to 5 personalities all the time so I could defend everywhere and move one personality there. I had to sacrifice Dairuko and Kobi to successfully defend one province and safe my only card in hand. On turn 5 I got to 43 Honor.

EDIT: I won the tournament^^

The decklist follows (changes from last time)

Shamate Keep
Dynasty

Shamate Keep
1x Border Keep XP
1x Bamboo Harvesters (pas sure)

2x Traveling Peddler
1x Family Library
2x Chugo Seido
3x Remote Village
3x Copper Mine
1x Stolen Merchandise
2x Indomitable Home

1x Akodo Kobi
3x Matsu Nishijo
3x Akodo Tezuka
3x Matsu Koyama
3x Matsu Gohei
1x Matsu Fumiyo XP
1x Akodo Dairuko
3x Akodo Kakihara
1x Kitsu Kagako
3x Akodo Dosei

1x Jurojin's Blessing
1x Blighted Region
1x Alter History
1x Imperial Gift

Fate
3x Greatful Reward
1x My Enemy's Mercy
2x Brawl
3x Great Sacrifice
1x Creating Order
2x Honor of the Lion
1x Ring of Fire
2x A Paragon's Strength
2x Heavily Engaged
1x A Game of Dice
3x Wall of Honor
3x Surety of Purpose
2x Entrenched Position
2x Broken Alliance
1x Guided By Honor
2x The Perfect Moment
3x Siege Volley
3x Cast Aside the Weak
3x Sundering Strike

BTW: I played against Desperate Mediation and I can see what the card can do - it's pretty strong but it does not really suit my (lion paragon) style, though I can see it well in my Kitsune Honor (even though I would rather drop the deck altogether, military is better - nonhuman + shugenjas). I still prefer Wall of Honor in this deck.


Dernière édition par stsung le Dim 19 Fév - 0:44, édité 1 fois
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Akodo Tenrou
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Sam 18 Fév - 21:47

Congratulations (except from the troubles that victory can earn in your couple times^^)

There is two great things I can see now in this report:

- first, your deck was very reliable on switch like the deck of Albert. That seems a great point for Paragon early EE.

- second: you seems to enjoy playing Lion, while your avatar seems to tell that you are from a renegade faction! Congratulations, your crossing the great line of Honor & victory: welcome to the Lion Jedi Clan! ;p

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"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Sam 18 Fév - 22:18

I'll see what the deck can do after playing more with it against other decks. If it will satisfy me I'll take it to some Kotei (the deck will need some changes for sure). For the time being it seems more probable than playing with my Mantis Decks.

Thanks for comments, they were helpful for sure.
I'll stick to Honor of the Lion for now, but just 2 copies. No one is going to make me play 3 ^_~.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Sam 18 Fév - 22:24

You are free (3) to play only two (2) ^^

Since you win more through Honor rather than Military, why not adding Imperial Gift and some random cheap item (1): you can manage to cycle it through BK xp if you have it early game.
The gain of 2H (2^^) and one card (1) is interesting as I see you allways look for cards.

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Mar 22 Mai - 12:39

I was prepared to play with my deck in Budapest, but I couldn't come there. I did not expect that I would actually lay hands on any L5R deck in the future and I think that I missed my only chance of being placed well at a Kotei. But I played with Lion Paragon at Prague's Second Chance Tournament.

Emperor Edition cards did not come to me and I did not really know what to expect - nor the decks nor the cards. I did not expect any good result but after the tournament I clearly saw that I could go 5:0 if I woud know the field a bit. (with the same deck...which wasn't really constructed in ideal way. that's also the reason why I was trying to get Border Keep XP in the morning...I knew that dynasty would work for me well but fate wise it could be a catastrophe)

I have to thank the two guys that played with me before the tournament because without these two games I would probably be quite lost. They explained me rules' changes and I was able to see some of the new cards. My deck was utterly crushed by Dragon Magistrate and once it won against Koshin Keep scouts.

So if by a chance I would have the cards, would be able to play a bit and have the money for another tournament I would come.
-----------------------------------------------------
Round 1 - Scorpion Dishonor
This poor player was quite bewildered and also played an illegal card. But after a while everything was ok and we could proceed to our game. It was a dishonor deck and I was surprised by new cards (obviously). The card that completely caught me offguard though was Bad Kharma that negated my kill action. After that I decided that my family honor should NOT get below -1. I was destroying provinces as I could and managed to destroy the last one having 4 Family honor.

Round 2 - KK Mantis Scout
A game against the nice guy who was willing to play a game against me earlier. He bought a holding and got even more holdings turn later so I tried attacking a province. One province was down and he still wasn't able to 'outswarm' my deck so I was destroying provinces as well. I was defending my provinces though and was gaining honor at that time mostly. I had 2 Iron Wills and Effortless Counterattack which also helped me gain some more advantage. I won by Honor Victory. Even though I could crush the last province as well.

Lunch Break
I wasn't really sure if I wanted to eat something so I went upstairs to the club Sestka and asked if I can play some Dance Dance Revolution. I was picking songs more or less randomly and was enjoying the movement. I was really nervous during the tournament and had to concentrate a lot as the cards were new to me and I did not know how my deck should behave against this or that deck (but probably I should/could have played 'military' in all the games I played). Stomping on the arrows helped me ease the stress quite a lot. My last two songs were Maxx Attacks and Max Forever. After that I was so tired that I actually went to grab something to eat and drink. Downstairs I waited for the Round start and was wondering against what I would be playing (there were quite many Scorpion decks around).

Round 3 - Phoenix Honor - Temple of Purity
This deck caught me by surprise. I knew that -4F and open bow tech might be quite annoying but 6 province strength also sounded easy enough to break. But this deck was gaining honor really fast (faster than me). I got to 29 Honor when my opponent was one turn from being over 40. I decided that gaining more honor could be rather dangerous for me as there were some courtiers on the table. Early in the morning the card named Rhetoric made me almost cry. In the end it showed that it was a good decision to stop earning honor. I had three attacks. In the first one, one lion with Greateful Reward followers attacked but was sent home. In the second one all my personalities managed to break one province. In the upcoming turn I had to destroy the remaining 3 provinces and I managed that! The game was really crazy.

Round 4 - Berserkers
As there were 3 people with 3:0 it was highly probable that I and Stepan Kadlec would meet. That happened. I got 'holdings' screwed'. After depleting my Border Keep and two more turns I finally flipped two holdings. I was at 32 Honor (lost 2 from Armor of Heavens) and had 2 personalities that were doomed to die. I managed to play Cast aside the weak on one of the berserkers but Stepan had Feign Death which ruined my whole plan. With that one personality dead I could have possibly won (with quite a bit of luck^^)

Round 5 - Shiro Chugo
Farnusch Scharwin was my next opponent. He played some (I just have no idea what decks would people play) Scorpion military from Shiro Chugo. I wasn't aware that Proclaim is an action which completely ruined my strategy as I was trying to win via honor victory and it was too late to switch to military.
I destroyed a province but there were already so many personalities, I couldn't do much with them. I was at 31 honor which would be fine if I wouldn't be losing 2 honor per turn. Add Kameyoi to it and you have the result of the match. I lost, but it was winnable if I would play straight military from the beginning. I deserve a face palm and Scharwin deserved a better place than being just above me. He knew what to do against my deck and played accordingly. He went straight for Hotako and I had no idea what to do with her. She's too annoying. I always had like 3 personalities not being able to assign to battle or perform action and the rest tried to defend 1-4 8 Force plus personalities.

In the end I managed to get in top 8. Stepan Kadlec lost in the finals against Kitsu honor but ended up second. We both got 24 packs of Embers of War^_^.

If I look back at the games and my deck I would certainly not play Great Sacrifice and would replace it with let's say Singh Remnants or some Shugenja cards (Unimpeachable Name, A Forefather's Vengeance, Visitation). Chrysanthemum Blossom was wonderful. Not only it was gaining me honor but the personality was soon able to take a province alone. Iron Will + Effortless Counterattack was good but many players did not want to take the additional action anyway so I usually had the second card in my hand for the rest of the game. It's good when playing in military mode, but for honor decks there are other cards that could be better. If I would have known the field better I could have possible gotten a better score even with the deck I played at the tournament.

Shamate Keep
Dynasty

Shamate Keep
1x Border Keep XP
1x Bamboo Harvesters XP


2x Traveling Peddler
2x Family Library
1x Chugo Seido
1x Akodo's Grave
3x Remote Village
3x Copper Mine
2x Indomitable Home

1x Akodo Kobi
3x Matsu Nishijo
3x Akodo Tezuka
3x Matsu Koyama
3x Matsu Gohei
1x Matsu Fumiyo XP
1x Akodo Dairuko
3x Akodo Kakihara
2x Kitsu Kagako
3x Akodo Dosei

1x Imperial Gift
1x Jurojin's Blessing
1x Blighted Region
1x Alter History

Fate
3x Greatful Reward
2x My Enemy's Mercy
2x Brawl
2x Great Sacrifice
1x Creating Order
2x Honor of the Lion
1x Ring of Fire
2x A Paragon's Strength
1x Chrysanthenum Blossom
1x A Game of Dice
3x Wall of Honor
3x Surety of Purpose
2x Effortless Counterattack
2x Broken Alliance
3x Guided By Honor
3x Iron Will
3x Cast Aside the Weak
3x Sundering Strike
1x Ring of Earth
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MessageSujet: Re: [EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor   Mer 23 Mai - 18:09

Try to make it to the Paris Kotei and we Will see to find you what you Need for your Deck. Paris Kotei Will not only be a tournament, it's designed as the last Kotei of the season to be a great l5r party and Remi is really motivated to please every one and we try to help him the best we can. So I can assure you you Will not be disappointed. And if you dont have one of the many many shiny shiny Gift prividing you with stuff for your Deck: i give my Lion promise that WE Will find you the cards for your (Lion) Deck ;-)

By the way great job for your report !

_________________
Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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[EE][Lion][SK] - Paragon honor
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