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 [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons

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Akodo_Lestat
Gunso
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Date d'inscription : 17/03/2011

MessageSujet: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Dim 24 Juil - 9:43

Hi everyone,

I've had this idea of mixing Paragons with Tacticians... And it doesn't look bad at first sight. It has not been tested yet, maybe I'll do it on today's tournament, but here's the initial concept:

Stronghold: Shamate Keep
1x Bamboo Harvester - exp
1x Border Keep

DYNASTY (40)
events (4): (the usual meta)
1x Akodo's Guidance
1x Alter History
1x Imperial Census
1x The War of Dark Fire
holdings (14): (the market/port gold scheme)
1x Chugo Seido
3x Copper Mine
3x Dockside Market
1x Kitsune Den
1x My Father's Shrine
3x Smuggler's Port
1x Stolen Merchandise
1x Traveling Peddler
personalities (21):
Tacticians(8+3):
1x Akodo Kurogane
3x Akodo Raemon
1x Akodo Shunori - exp
1x Akodo Tsudoken
1x Akodo Tsudoken - exp
1x Ikoma Hagio - exp
Paragon-Tacticians (3):
1x Akodo Kobi - exp
1x Akodo Ryozo
1x Matsu Kenji - exp
Paragons(10+3)
1x Matsu Fumiyo - exp
3x Matsu Kinihara
3x Matsu Koyama
3x Matsu Nishijo
regions (1):
1x Mountain Storehouse

FATE (40)
actions (36):
Paragon Actions(9):
3x Cast Aside the Weak
3x Grateful Reward
3x Iron Will
Tactician Actions(11):
3x Consideration
2x Control the Board
3x Countermove
2x Shatter the Line
Common Actions:
1x A Game of Dice
1x Creating Order
1x Honor Never Falls
3x The Spirit of Knowledge
2x My Life Is Yours
3x Broken Alliance
3x Only Actions Speak
3x The Cost of Pride

followers (1):
1x Fifth Wind Cavalry
items (1):
1x De Bellis Yoditorum
rings (2):
1x Ring of Water
1x Ring of the Void

The point of a deck like these one is to get to play Countermove and Consideration along with Iron Will. With 5 fate cards to give tactician, we won't miss the trait, and Tacticians per se have great actions to survive.
The bad things are that Kasei doesn't fit, and neither does The Perfect Moment nor Shame and Cowaldry...
Any ideas?
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Dim 24 Juil - 10:36

I would play less Tactician, out Shatter for more Paragon actions.
I would Keep Kenji Kobi Ryozo, 3 Raemon, Shunori and 3 Knowledge De Bellis and that seems enough for 3 Countermove 3 Considération 2 Control the Board.

You have more slot for Paragon so that you CAN play The Perfect moment

My opinion :-)

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Dim 24 Juil - 13:46

Seems interessting.

The deck is more access in tactician than Paragon in dynasty and in other side in fate.
I see that many card from Fl appared. It's for test or cuz of their power?

The deck looks like really expensive. No more Kasei - Shunran - Youko ( 6GC peeps ).

This deck is really different of my view at this moment. Really interresting.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Lun 25 Juil - 5:35

Akodo Tenrou a écrit:
I would play less Tactician, out Shatter for more Paragon actions.
I would Keep Kenji Kobi Ryozo, 3 Raemon, Shunori and 3 Knowledge De Bellis and that seems enough for 3 Countermove 3 Considération 2 Control the Board.

You have more slot for Paragon so that you CAN play The Perfect moment

My opinion :-)

Tsudoken is a must in all my decks, even the xp one Smile. But yes, maybe Hagio and Kurogane could go out. And Shatter is not that necessary with a couple of Paragon actions...
Dragonic, FL is there cos.. it's trully powerfull. In fact, the main reason of the deck is that I want to play 3xConsideration Very Happy!
And yes, it should get a couple of 6G peeps, the deck is too expensive (but also, gold scheme is really cool).
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Lun 25 Juil - 6:41

With Cast Aside you can run out of Tsudoken ;-p

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Lun 25 Juil - 7:37

Akodo Tenrou a écrit:
With Cast Aside you can run out of Tsudoken ;-p
There's never enough Tsudoken. Save Cast Aside to destroy naked peeps Smile!
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Lun 25 Juil - 7:56

Ahah ! Yes, Cast Aside is the greatest thng since a long Time ;-p

_________________
Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Ven 5 Aoû - 20:03

Here's an evolution of the ParaTact idea:


1 Shamate Keep

# Dynasty (40)
BK xp
BH xp

# Events (3)
1 The War of Dark Fire
1 Imperial Census
1 Alter History

# Celestials (1)
1 Akodo's Guidance

# Regions (1)
1 Mountain Storehouse

# Holdings (13)
3 Smuggler's Port
1 Chugo Seido
1 Stolen Merchandise
1 Kitsune Den
3 Copper Mine
1 Traveling Peddler
3 Dockside Market

# Personalities (22)
1 Matsu Kenji - exp
1 Matsu Fumiyo - exp
1 Akodo Tsudoken - exp
3 Matsu Koyama
3 Matsu Kinihara
3 Matsu Nishijo
1 Akodo Shunori - exp
1 Akodo Ryozo
1 Akodo Kobi - exp
1 Akodo Tsudoken
3 Akodo Senzo
3 Matsu Shunran

# Fate (40)

# Strategies (37)
3 Iron Will
2 Broken Alliance
3 The Spirit of Knowledge
3 Consideration
3 Cast Aside the Weak
1 Creating Order
3 My Life Is Yours
2 Control the Board
1 A Game of Dice
3 Grateful Reward
3 Only Actions Speak
3 The Cost of Pride
3 Shameful and Cowardly
3 The Perfect Moment
1 The Thriving Light

# Items (1)
1 De Bellis Yoditorum

# Rings (2)
1 Ring of the Void
1 Ring of Water

I like it. I'm going to test it this weekend!


Dernière édition par Akodo_Lestat le Sam 6 Aoû - 7:49, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 6:07

"only" 6 BV for Kinihara, that seems too less no? :-/

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 6:55

- 13 holdings seems not a lot. The deck is expensive. I didn't see about BK and BH may be for it.
- Only 7GC peeps. Against breeder and crane, it's the number of Lion that will say if i win or no. I don't know if the deck if so expensive it's possible to beat them.

- I'm in the sam way of u about the meta honneur, the same event ( Imperial Census count on it ) / AOS / TTL. Say me about it after your tests Smile
- The Spirit of Knowledge. U wanna this card to put paragon tactician or for draw ?Good if i have the CoP in hand but in other way bow for draw ...

Interesting deck

I try to find Lion deck to beat the Lion deck cuz iam sure that all people will play Paragon deck :p

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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 7:34

Akodo Tenrou a écrit:
"only" 6 BV for Kinihara, that seems too less no? :-/
Yes... but PoHG doesn't fit, neither does Civility. A pity indeed Sad

Dragonic a écrit:
- 13 holdings seems not a lot. The deck is expensive. I didn't see about BK and BH may be for it.
- Only 7GC peeps. Against breeder and crane, it's the number of Lion that will say if i win or no. I don't know if the deck if so expensive it's possible to beat them.

- I'm in the sam way of u about the meta honneur, the same event ( Imperial Census count on it ) / AOS / TTL. Say me about it after your tests Smile
- The Spirit of Knowledge. U wanna this card to put paragon tactician or for draw ?Good if i have the CoP in hand but in other way bow for draw ...

Interesting deck

I try to find Lion deck to beat the Lion deck cuz iam sure that all people will play Paragon deck :p


I'm playing BK xp, that's the reason of the low number of holdings (well, 1 less than the usual Very Happy). And I play 4x6G, Shunran and Shunori, 3x less than my usual building. I have to try it, port/market scheme should be strong enough. But of course, it needs a lot of testing.
The honor meta of this deck is the tactician power plus what you said. Force bonus and Consideration should break the Crane sooner than usual (I hope!)
The Spirit of Knowledge is for making the Paragons tactician, but with a Shunnori/Tsudoken at the table I wouldn't mind making them draw Smile

You're right, lion meta is really important too. It should be the same than against a BM deck: Shameful + Perfect Moment... and the luck to be first Very Happy!
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 13:41

Brothers In Battle or In the Heart of Battle ?

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Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 19:05

Akodo Tenrou a écrit:
Brothers In Battle or In the Heart of Battle ?

I really want to play In the Heart of Battle, but I just can't find a sport... also, I would love to play Brothers, but I think there are so many stronger cards right now.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Sam 6 Aoû - 23:13

BiB isn't very attractive to me either... Unless finding slot for TCoP.

Some ideas :

- very Honor expensive: Daigotsu Setsuko xp: Paragon/Tacticien (or cavalry.. Or Duelist to meta Crane). Can recycle Cast Aside too. The problem is still the Honor loss.

- a tool I would consider by mixing tactician: I would play Banish All Doubt x3 to cycle for more (or less) OAS.

That ' s some thinkings about the main theme ;-)

_________________
Parangon - Mon Honneur n'est pas à vendre -
"Celui qui pousse l’ennemi à se déplacer, en lui faisant miroiter une opportunité s’assure la supériorité."
Sun Tzu, l'Art de la Guerre.
"L'intention politique est la fin, la guerre est le moyen. Et jamais le moyen ne peut être pensé sans la fin."
Carl von Clausewitz, De la Guerre.
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Dim 7 Aoû - 8:38

Akodo Tenrou a écrit:
BiB isn't very attractive to me either... Unless finding slot for TCoP.

Some ideas :

- very Honor expensive: Daigotsu Setsuko xp: Paragon/Tacticien (or cavalry.. Or Duelist to meta Crane). Can recycle Cast Aside too. The problem is still the Honor loss.

- a tool I would consider by mixing tactician: I would play Banish All Doubt x3 to cycle for more (or less) OAS.

That ' s some thinkings about the main theme ;-)

Mmm, I don't like Setsuko at all, it's too expensive.
But Banish all Doubts... Maybe I test it getting out 1xCost of Pride, 1xMy Life and 1xShameful and Cowaldry. What do you think?
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MessageSujet: Re: [FL] Shamate Tactician Paragons   Lun 8 Aoû - 8:12

Yesterday I had a bit of testing, the deck works fine, but it has a few problems:
- Border Keep xp is cool, but I'm going to change it. I had more than a few awful turns where I would have needed to refill, and I didn't really need to refresh fate cards (I didn't play against crane, but).
- The deck suffers too many non-battle cards, 11, I think. Banish is not comming.
I lost 1 game against a Crane of Scouts because of that and playing bad. It was a good pairing and a bad player, but I went to battle without kill actions and he destroyed all my army (with 3xDuels with Domotai, lol). And I lost against a Fenix of Spells because of the border (2 turns without personalities in a row...).
I won against Scorpion dishonor, Fénix Honor (Shrine), Fenix Spells, and Scorpion Ninja. Thw worse game was Ninja, Aroru was a headache and I was lucky to draw a Creating Order when I needed it.

The good things:
- Force Bonus was amazing with Tacticians. A pity I couldn't play against Crane, I think this deck is going to be really strong against it.
- Consideration. It's DA FKN CARD.

This is the third deck I tested in FL, with full Paragons and Paragons+Items. It's still weaker than the Naked Paragons, but I think that if I get to improve it it's going to be the strongest deck we have before SC.
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